0630 Parallels of the 17th Century

Last modified by TLE Archivist ONE on 2023/11/01 22:45

0630 Parallels of the 17th Century

Note from Archivist: The TLE Library is primarily an archive of sessions channeled by Troy Tolley, and all work presented here should be assumed to be channeled by Troy unless a note like this one is included. 

Babylove (aka Nick Sweeney) was mentored by Troy, and participates in the TLE Community as a student. We have elected to post sessions channeled by Nick in this library if shared within TLE because these sessions often continue conversations begun with a session channeled by Troy or vice versa. Other content channeled by Nick may be found by searching for ChannelNS.

Nothing too news breaking here. Just an invested exploration of the 17th Century for later sessions to dive even more into.


Channeled by Nick Sweeney on June 30th 2022.

MEntity: Hello, Kurtis. We are still here, now. You can begin when you are ready.

Kurtis: Hello Nick and Michael. Good morning, and thank you for another sit in with me.

Let’s first start by going back to this.

I’d like you to note whether any of these are valid branches:

1439: The Council of Florence succeeds in uniting the Catholic and Orthodox churches into one church. 

1509 and 1527: King Henry VIII never marries Catherine of Aragon, or his divorce with Catherine of Aragon is permitted. Henry doesn’t stoke the fires of English Reformation in turn, so England perhaps stays Catholic much as the 1502 branch.

1521: A branch where Martin Luther wasn’t excommunicated by the Church. Some speculate he could have become pope instead, or that he could have been burnt like Jan Hus in an effort to repress dissent.

1522: Portugal colonizes Indonesia due to a successful coalition and peace treaty with the Sunda Kingdom, instead of emphasizing Brazil.

1529: Ottomans invade Austria successfully in the Battle of Vienna, perhaps merging into the 1480 “Easternized” parallels?

1558: Queen Mary I of England doesn’t die so Queen Elizabeth I never gains power. Which could either mean she reinstates Catholicism, or England falls into division and religious war.

1565 and 1571: Ottomans win the Siege of Malta or Battle of Lepanto and retain these lands from Europe, perhaps merging into the 1480 Easternized world.

1580: Portugal resists Iberian Union, growing closer ties with the Spice Isles, again, instead of Brazil.

You told me last time you’d need to take more time to look at these. But you also said that the 1558 branch appears to be valid. My research indicates that it most likely moved towards the world where England fell into division and civil war. So I would also like to confirm that is true.

MEntity: Are you asking if these are valid branches that have not merged?

Kurtis: That is correct.

Last time, you said you can only see 1558 as a valid separate branch.

And that you'd need another time to assess the rest with more clarity.


Ok, we understand. One moment.

Yes, this is correct that the 1558 branch is the only one from this list. We will also remind you that the more you share in these lists, the less efficiently we can work with and through our channel to deliver our communication. It might be helpful to only share 3-4 examples at a time whenever you have a list about which you are asking for validation, information, insight, etc.

Kurtis: Noted. I can do that, thank you for the feedback.

Did 1558 move towards the Divided England with the Civil War?

MEntity: Yes.

Kurtis: Thanks.

Okay, next question.

Next I’d like to drop into the 1920s and ask if there are any non-merging parallels branched from that decade? I haven’t received anything yet.

MEntity: We do not see any, no.

Kurtis: That's what I thought as well.

And now we’ll dive into the 17th Century.

First, I’d like you to note any time frames you see as valid branches in this century. You did this for the 16th Century and I found it useful for discovering branching points I wouldn’t have thought of previously.

We have already confirmed 1633 and 1658 as moving towards “Quiet Humanity”. This is where Aurangzeb died and Dara Shikoh survived to become emperor. So there’s no need to address those. We have also received 1609, a branch where the Telescope wasn’t invented that moved towards more simple living structures.

You have also confirmed a branch from 1665 or 1676 where after the discovery of Microbiology, Humanity invested heavily into advancing Biosciences and Genetic Engineering. I am not sure, however, if only one or if both of these are valid.


Yes, one moment.

We also see: 1629, 1644 and 1685. 1665 Would be the valid branch.

Kurtis: Okay thank you.

Looking at these...

1629 - Is this a branch where the Catholics won the 30 Years War in Europe? I think this could have seen more protestants emigrate from Europe to America, and a possible founding of a more Puritan, Theocratic United States.

1644 - Is this a branch where the Qing Dynasty wasn’t ever founded? Not sure where this would have gone. It is possible it moved towards the “Quiet Humanity” branch?

1685 - Is this a branch where Isaac Newton never published his theories? And where the Glorious Revolution never occurred? I am not sure what would have happened here.

MEntity: 1629-Yes, correct, though the relevant changes are more about how Europe was impacted and less about America's beginnings.

Kurtis: I'd be curious to know more about how it was affected and what life is like there now.

MEntity: Europe saw a steep rise in its power and influence but then a steep decline and collapse. We believe this branch flowed into the "Quiet Humanity" parallels, as well.

Kurtis: Oh how interesting. Thank you.

After you answer the other parallels, Id like to ask if there is a branch from the 17th Century where the United States grew to start off as a Puritan theocracy? I think this might be a branch from the 1630s or 1640s.

MEntity: 1644-we are having trouble getting something meaningful through our channel, but we think extending the "window" a few years on either side might help you to locate relevant data that we can then confirm. We think the branching would have come from the consolidation of the Qing Dynasty but its quick transitions of power which took that dynasty in a new direction.

Kurtis: oh, hm...

MEntity: 1685- correct.

Kurtis: Okie doke noted thank you.

MEntity: Regarding the potential Puritan Theocracy, this never established itself, though there were always those who desired this.

Kurtis: I for one am glad for that.

Okay then, Id like for confirmation that any of these are valid non-merging branches:

1605 - The Gunpowder Plot succeeds in killing most of parliament and throws England into Civil War.

1653 and 1665 - Branches where the Dutch Republic could have held onto power and its colonies, eventually moving towards an Industrial Revolution. I think these would have moved towards the Advanced Science & Technology “Tomorrowland” parallels.

1672 - A branch where the Dutch were crushed and dismantled by the French during the Franco-Dutch War. I am not sure where this would have gone, if it exists.

1684 - A branch where Robert Hooke’s telegraph system was adopted by the Royal Society.

MEntity: Yes for 1605 and 1660 (we would "collapse this range into one more critical year for the turning point) and no for 1672 and 1684.

Kurtis: Okay, thank you. Are you saying 1660 is valid as well as 1653 and 1665? Or that 1660 is only valid and 1653 and 1665 are not?

MEntity: We are saying that there is a range of "events" within this duration of time you have given that contributed to the branching but the most relevant branching that marries "both sides" of the period could be seen as the middle of the period. In other words, all three dates and the whole range are related to the relevant branches, but the one that is most pivotal regarding a separate branch would be 1660. This is one of those time periods where, for the purpose of your project, the subtleties of the events, branches, and convergences, are not able to be fitted into a linear pattern that makes sense or would give meaning to your project. So, 1660 is the best we can do in this instance through our channel at the moment.

Kurtis: I see. Yes some time frames are more like wide pools and others are much sharper it seems.

1660 works fine. 

Okay to round off today. What is life like in the set of parallels where Isaac Newton never published his theories and the Glorious Revolution never occurred?


Yes, one moment.

We must make a correction with this branch, as we are not finding a current "world" that we can trace back to this given date and event. We believe we were incorrect in our original interpretations. This is one way we can validate our own work. When we "go in" to look for the details of a world, and they are not there. Therefore, the branching from this date and event did not evolve into its own set of parallels.

Kurtis: Noted. Thank you. 

MEntity: This is all the time we have for today, Kurtis. We will say goodbye. Good day to you.

Kurtis: Again, it is all very appreciated.

Till next!


Some learned things:

The Gunpowder Plot led in part by Guy Fawkes had a serious impact on history it seems. One blown parliament and everything comes tumbling. Systems can really be that fragile. We still have yet to explore what the world looks like today in the world where England fell into Division and Civil War. My best guess is that France would rise until it comes into great contention with Germany or Russia.

Because this lines up with WWII, I think it may be the case that those parallels could have moved towards the world plagued by a Nuclear Holocaust from what looks like the 1940s. You can read about this world in "Hopping through Parallels and finding Discrepancies".

This Nuclear Holocaust world conjures images of deep sadness to me...

So there are parallels where the Catholics won the 30 Years War. Given the penchant for the Catholic Church to have such a stronghold on society and politics, much as the GOP do today, I would have imagined they'd have moved towards a more... staunch and theocratic world. But I'm glad they did not! I'm glad no parallel from the 17th Century seems to have. That world would suck.

Instead it looks like they moved towards "Quiet Humanity". A much better option!

I know @Delphi is particularly fascinated by this time period and its music. So it looks like your fascination with Baroque aesthetics and music would have gone there, and would be of interest for you to study, Delphi.

This is truly an aesthetic of grandeur, splendor and harmony. There is something transcendent about it.

As for 1644. I am still looking at this. But intuitively, I get a sense that this might be a world that moved towards the Easternized Communitarian parallels where the Ottomans invaded and colonized Italy. I get the sense this could be a branch where the Qing did not seek to assimilate everyone under their Manchu culture.

Alternatively, it could be another branch towards "Quiet Humanity". I will need to think and discover more on this one.

There are also parallels where the Dutch Republic survived and moved on to Industrialization. It looks like they would have held on to their colonies in Brazil and New York there, influencing a more Germanic England. In a world where the Dutch industrialized before England, the result today is a world that looks more like "Tomorrowland"

According to a session Delphi hasn't posted yet, here's an excerpt I find relevant:

"Delphi: Third is that Dutch dominance would have been very different from British or Spanish - the Dutch seemed significantly more liberal and humane and were more interested in exchange than conquest.


... 3) It is likely that if the Dutch had been the leading power into the Americas, there would not have been quite the same level of destruction and assimilation of the Native American culture. Even so, the colonialization would still have occurred."

Most records of history today point out that the Dutch at the time mostly just wanted to trade with the Indigenous peoples. They did not want to invade the natives in the same way that Spain and Britain wanted to. A reality that seems to have contributed greatly to why a Child Timeline even branched from a Trans-Atlantic Pandemic 250 years ago. 

Settlements were necessary for trade and profit, but their primary interest was not encroachment, national glory or total subjection and assimilation. 

In the 17th Century the Dutch and the Mughals before Aurangzeb interest me the most of all cultures.

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